Plato's Statements Comparison of 50 Points

First we can consider the work of the Atlantis Milos Conference (2005) with an analysis of the 24 points of the Atlantis Milos Conference.
Bolivia matches 20 of these points chosen by the Atlantis Conference, a far higher number than any other candidate, but can easily match 50 of Plato's details which are given along with examples from his texts further down the page.

The Milos Atlantis Conference (Greece) “The Atlantis Hypothesis Searching for a Lost Land” took place between 11th and 13th July 2005. Specialists in the fields of archaeology, geology, volcanology and other sciences presented and substantiated their views regarding the place where Atlantis existed, the time when it was destroyed and the causes of its destruction, whilst a number of people expressed their doubts as to whether it actually existed. Based on the accounts of Plato, the conference participants agreed on the following 24 criteria, which a geographical area must satisfy in order to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed: (editor's note, the following list was obtained from the Internet after the Conference and may differ slightly to the one presently published by the Conference organisers).

1.The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been located where an island used to be and where parts of it may still exist.
2. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have had a most distinct geomorphology composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water.
3. The Atlantis should have been located outside the Pillars of Hercules.
4. The Metropolis of Atlantis was greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle East and Sinai (combined).
5. Atlantis must have sheltered a literate population with metallurgical and navigational skills.
6. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been routinely reachable from Athens by sea.
7. At the time, Atlantis should have been at war with Athens.
8. The Metropolis of Athens (sic) must have suffered a devastating physical destruction of unprecedented proportions. (should have read metropolis of Atlantis?)
9. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have sunk entirely or partly below the water.
10. The Metropolis of Atlantis was destroyed 9000 Egyptian years before the 6th century B.C.
11. The part of Atlantis was 50 stadia (7,5 km) from the city.
12. Atlantis had a high population density, enough to support a large army (10,000 chariots, 1,200 ships, 1,200,000 hoplites)
13. The region of Atlantis involved the sacrifice of bulls.
14. The destruction of Atlantis was accompanied by an earthquake.
15. After the destruction of Atlantis, the passage of ships was blocked.
16. Elephants were present in Atlantis.
17. No physically or geologically impossible processes were involved in the destruction of Atlantis.
18. Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits, were present in Atlantis.
19. Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains falling into the sea.
20. Atlantis controlled other states of the period.
21. Winds in Atlantis came from the north (only in Northern hemisphere)
22. The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red.
23. There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis.
24. Every 5th and 6th year, they sacrificed bulls.

Using the above criteria, independently arrived at by the conference participants, the editor of this page has compiled the following table which illustrates how the various locations proposed for Atlantis may fit or not fit, as the case may be, the criteria for Atlantis as defined by the Conference.

Atlantis conference Milos List location and features

Bolivan Altiplano

Cyprus

Thera

Malta

Straits of Gibraltar

Azores

Off Cuba

Malaysia

Antarctica

1.The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been located where an island used to be and where parts of it may still exist.

Yes, at Pampa Aullagas, easily verified

No
There is no sunken island at Cyprus

Yes

Malta Is an island, none of it is missing

Difficult to verify,

Under water

Yes
but Azores are a group of islands, none are known to have disappeared

Claimed, but never verified, no proof has ever been offered

Various islands, none in particular known to be missing

No

 

2. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have had a most distinct geomorphology composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
at Pampa Aullagas, easily verified

Cyprus
No

Thera
No
but may have had an island within the caldera

Malta
No

Straits of Gibraltar
No

Azores
No

Off Cuba
No

Malaysia
No

Antarctica
No

 

3. Atlantis should have been located outside the Pillars of Hercules.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes

Cyprus
no

Thera
no

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
yes

Azores
yes

Off Cuba
yes

Malaysia
yes

but Plato said it was in the Atlantic Ocean

Antarctica
yes

4. The Metropolis of Atlantis was greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle East and Sinai (combined).

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
the continent of Atlantis is now called “South America

Cyprus
no

Thera
no

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

 

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
yes

5. Atlantis must have sheltered a literate population with metallurgical and navigational skills.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
The people had both metallurigical and navigational skills, native sailing craft used dagger boards and "bermudan" sails, both of which were later introduced into Europe

Cyprus
Yes

 

Thera
Yes

Malta
Yes

 

Straits of Gibraltar

Azores
no

 

Off Cuba
Yes

 

Malaysia
not probable

Antarctica
No

6. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been routinely reachable from Athens by sea.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
Coca and tobacco were found in Egyptian mummies,“Bolivian” pyramids are built in “Egyptian” cubits, cuneiform writing has been found near Lake Titicaca and the Andean style jug shown below was found in Cyprus.


Cyprus
Yes

 

Thera
Yes

 

 

Malta
Yes

 

Straits of Gibraltar
Yes

 

Azores
Yes

 

Off Cuba
Yes

 

Malaysia
not probable

Antarctica
not probable

7. At the time, Atlantis should have been at war with Athens.

Bolivian Altiplano
Not verifiable
Probably refers to events beginning with the Trojan War, the invasion of Egypt by the “Sea Peoples” and the attempted Persian conquest of Athens


Cyprus
not verifiable

Thera
not verifiable

Malta
not verifiable

Straits of Gibraltar
notverifiable

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

8. The Metropolis of Atlantis must have suffered a devastating physical destruction of unprecedented proportions.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
at Pampa Aullagas most of the site has been destroyed by earthquakes.

Cyprus
no

Thera
Yes

 

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

9. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have sunk entirely or partly below the water.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
the white deposits on the stones are from the time the site was covered by the nearby lake.

Cyprus
No

Thera
Yes

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
claimed but difficult to verify

Azores
no

Off Cuba
claimed but never verified

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

10. The Metropolis of Atlantis was destroyed 9000 Egyptian years before the 6th century B.C.

Bolivian Altiplano
At this period the Altiplano was submerged beneath Lake Tauca

Cyprus
No

Thera
No, but some say dividing the years by 10 would fit Thera

Malta
Difficult to verify an actual date

Straits of Gibraltar
Difficult to verify an actual date

Azores
Difficult to verify an actual date

Off Cuba
Difficult to verify an actual date

Malaysia
Difficult to verify an actual date

Antarctica
No
Antarctica has been under ice for at least 100,000 years

11. The part of Atlantis was 50 stadia (7,5 km) from the city. This should read “the sea was 50 stadia from the city”

Bolivian altiplano
Yes
at Pampa Aullagas

Cyprus
no

Thera
no
The city was supposed to be located on a level rectangular plain, which does not exist on Thera

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

12. Atlantis had a high population density, enough to support a large army (10,000 chariots, 1,200 ships, 1,200,000 hoplites)

 

Bolivian altiplano
Yes
Guaman Poma states the country had a vast population and Google Earth shows remains of fossilised agricultural systems.

Cyprus
no

Thera
no

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

off Cuba

Malaysia
Yes
but Malasia is not in the Atlantic Ocean

Antarctica
no

13. The region of Atlantis involved the sacrifice of bulls.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
there is no word for "llama" in the Greek language so it was translated as a "bull", so for “bulls” read “llamas” which are still sacrificed there today.

Cyprus
not known

Thera
Yes

Bull games on crete

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
not known

Azores
no

Off Cuba
not probable

Malaysia
not probable

Antarctica
no

14. The destruction of Atlantis was accompanied by an earthquake.

 

Bolivan Altiplano
Yes
considerable earthquake damage exists throughout the zone.

Cyprus
no

Thera
No
Thera was destroyed by volcanic eruption, not earthquakes

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
not known

Azores
no

Off Cuba
Yes

earthquake zone

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

15. After the destruction of Atlantis, the passage of ships was blocked.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
The nearby sea no longer reaches to Pampa Aullagas

Cyprus
no

Thera
No
ships can clearly sail into the centre of the crater

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

16. Elephants were present in Atlantis.

 

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
Mastodon remains have been found near Oruro

Cyprus
no

Thera
no

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malasia
Yes

 

Antarctica
no

17. No physically or geologically impossible processes were involved in the destruction of Atlantis

 

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
The Altiplano is subject to the earthquakes and floods Plato mentioned

Cyprus
No

Thera
Yes
Thera was destroyed by an immense volcanic eruption

 

Malta
No

no sunken island

Straits of Gibraltar
No

Azores
No.

entire continents cannot sink in a single day

Off Cuba
Yes

earthquake zone

Malaysia

entire continents cannot sink in a single day

Antarctica
No.

has been under ice for a longer period than Plato’s timescale

18. Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits, were present in Atlantis.

Editor’s note, the minerals were gold, silver, copper, tin and orichalcum

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
In addition to hot and cold springs it also possesses all the minerals Plato mentioned

Cyprus
no

Thera
no
no native deposits of tin for example

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
Yes
has tin deposits

Antarctica
no

19. Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains falling into the sea.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
The only Atlantis site to have a rectanguar plain

Cyprus
no

Thera
No
Even if the plain were on Crete and divided by 10, it would still be too large to fit.

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

20. Atlantis controlled other states of the period.

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

21. Winds in Atlantis came from the north (only in Northern hemisphere)

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

22. The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
At Pampa Aullagas, all three colours are present on the same site. Atlantis rocks

Cyprus
no

Thera
Yes
usual of a volcanic environment

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
Not known

Azores
Yes

usual of a volcanic environment

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica

23. There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis.

Bolivian Altiplano
Yes
Visible on satellite images of the Altiplano

Atlantis rocks

Cyprus
no

Thera
no

Malta
no

Straits of Gibraltar
no

Azores
no

Off Cuba
no

Malaysia
no

Antarctica
no

24. Every 5th and 6th year, they sacrificed bulls.

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Difficult to prove

Totals

 

 

Bolivan Altiplano
20

Cyprus
2

Thera
8

Malta
2

Straits of Gibraltar
2

Azores
4

Off Cuba
5

Malasia
4

Antarctica
2

 

From the above criteria as defined by the Milos conference, the key points must surely be the geographic description of the island i.e. in particular (2) that it should have a particular geomorphology composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water, (3) should have been located outside the Pillars of Hercules, (4) The Metropolis of Atlantis was greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle East and Sinai combined (18) Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits (gold, silver, copper and tin), were present in Atlantis, (19) Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains falling into the sea, (22) The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red, (23) There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis.

The only candidate site which contains an island with the specific geomorphology of the alternating rings of land and water, destroyed by earthquakes and floods and which also lies on a rectangular level plain which in turn is in the centre of a continent opposite the Pillars of Hercules is Pampa Aullagas on the Bolvian Altiplano and the lack of these key, determining features surely disqualifies the other candidates. In other words, it is pointless for people to keep putting forward, for example, Thera as the site of Atlantis when it matches so little of the description whilst at the same time ignoring the only unique site which actually does match the description.

milos Atlantis conference chart

We can now look at some of the words Plato actually used to describe Atlantis.
In some of the following paragraphs, the three different translations by Benjamin Jowett, R.G.Bury (1929)
and Sir Desmond Lee (1971) are given in order to try and amplify the original text and additional material is provided to demonstrate how the Bolivian Altiplano matches Plato's description.

from the Timaeus:

Interpretation and comments

Then listen, Socrates, to a tale which, though strange, is certainly true

And what is this ancient famous action of the Athenians, which Critias declared, on the authority of Solon, to be not a mere legend, but an actual fact?

And what other, Critias, can we find that will be better than this, which is natural and suitable to the festival of the goddess, and has the very great advantage of being a fact and not a fiction?

Plato says three times that the Atlantis story is a true story. He says that they are going to use this story as the basis of a story which they will use and build upon at the festival of Athena

you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given to foreigners Solon, who was intending to use the tale for his poem, enquired into the meaning of the names, and found that the early Egyptians in writing them down had translated them into their own language,

and he recovered the meaning of the several names and when copying them out again translated them into our language

Poseidon was the Greek god of the sea, known as Neptune in Rome and Tunapa in Bolivia. Other words such as Trireme is the familiar Greek name for a ship or warship.

She founded your city a thousand years before ours, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old.

According to the tale, Egypt was founded around 8,500BC and Athens in 9,500BC

As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago,

There is no record of civilisations in Egypt or Greece in 9,600BC, but Plato uses the same date for the destruction of Atlantis as he does for the founding of Greece and the wars between Atlantis, Greece and Egypt.

1 For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, Jowett

For it is related in our records how once upon a time your state stayed the course of a mighty host, which, starting from a distant point in the Atlantic ocean, Bury

Our records tell how your city checked a great power which arrogantly advanced from its base in the Atlantic ocean Lee

Atlantis was located in the Atlantic Ocean. It is pointless to try and relocate Atlantis to within the Straits or move the Straits to inside the Mediterranean, because the text clearly says Atlantis was a continent in the Atlantic Ocean.

2 there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; Jowett

in front of the mouth which you Greeks call, as you say, "the pillars of Heracles" Bury

There was an island opposite the strait which you call (so you say) the Pillars of Heracles, Lee

The island of Atlantis was located in front of or opposite the Straits of Gibraltar (Pillars of Hercules). South America is the "island" opposite the Strait of Gibraltar.

3 the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together,

Atlantis was a continent as large as Libya (North Africa) and Asia combined.

South America is an immense continent which is virtually an island in its own right and easily comparible in size to Libya (North Africa) and Asia combined whether considerd on its own or combined with its twin continent of North America.

4 and was the way to other islands

Beyond South America there are islands in the Pacific

5 and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean;

which lead to "the opposite continent" i.e to Asia, the true ocean being the Atlantic and Pacific combined and which surrounds all of the Earth

Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits

This sounds like a description of the war by the "Sea Peoples" against Egypt which took place around 1226BC and 1186BC. The "Sea Peoples" also advanced by land, entering Egypt from Palestine and Libya.

6 afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. Jowett

At a later time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and one grievous day and night befell them, and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished Bury

At a later time there were earthquakes and floods of extraordinary violence, and in one single dreadful day and night the island of Atlantis was swallowed up by the sea and vanished; Lee

Atlantis was destroyed by earthquakes and floods. The Altiplano has periodically been subject to climatic change in the form of alternating inland seas (lakes Minchin, Tauca, Coipasa) and dry periods. It is also prone to earthquakes, evidence of which can be seen at Pampa Aullagas where the volcano and the surrounding plain has been sunk by earthquakes. It was only the capital island city of Atlantis which sank into the sea, not the whole continent.
Lake Tauca

7 For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. Jowett

wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearcheable, being blocked up by the shoal mud which the island threw up as it settled down Bury

this is why the sea in that area is to this day impassable to navigation, which is hindered by mud just below the surface, the remains of the sunken island. Lee

The inland sea of Lake Poopo formerly called Lake Aullagas is sometimes entirely impassable to boats when it dries up in the dry season. Plato implied that the island of Atlantis was swallowed up by the sea and disappeared beneath the earth, but Sir Francis Bacon said Plato got it wrong and the sea rose to cover the city.

from Critias:

that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war

Nine thousand years previously was given as the date for the founding of Athens but is also given as the date for the war and end of Atlantis. Clearly there is an error here, but if the 9,000 years were taken as lunar months then it would be 1260BC which is the date of the Trojan war and more or less the date of the founding of Athens (1400BC) by Theseus. It is unlikely that Atlantis could have existed on the Altiplano in 9,600BC since at that time it had already been under the waters of Lake Tauca for some time. When Lake Tauca dried up, there were periods of alternating droughts and floods and Atlantis could have begun in any of these periods continuing perhaps up to the date of around 1260BC (substituting months for years) which Plato gave for the war and Atlantis' subsequent destruction.

8 Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain Jowett

Bordering on the sea and extending through the centre of the whole island there was a plain Bury

At the centre of the island (ie midway along its greatest length,) near the sea, was a plain Lee

This plain is the Altiplano, which not only is on the centre of the whole continent, but as Lee says, it is midway along its longest side.

9 Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side. Jowett

and, moreover, near the plain, over against its centre, at a distance of about fifty stades, there stood a mountain that was low on all sides. Bury

and near the middle of this plain about fifty stades inland a hill of no great size. Lee

At this location we find the volcanic mountain of Pampa Aullagas, a central cone on top of a low plateau fifty stades or five miles from the inland sea of Lake Poopo

10 Theron dwelt one of the natives originally sprung from the earth… and Poseidon, being smitten with desire for her, wedded her. Bury

This corresponds to the tale of Tunapa, God of the lakes and rivers who married Azanques, god of a hill opposite Pampa Aullagas.

11 Poseidon ...breaking the ground, enclosed the hill all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger and smaller, encircling one another; so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet Jowett

Poseidon...to make the hill impregnable he broke it off all round about; and he made circular belts of sea and land enclosing one another alternately, some greater, some smaller, , so as to be impassable for man; for at that time neither ships nor sailing were yet in existence. Bury

Poseidon...fortified the hill by enclosing it with concentric rings of sea and land, making the place impassable for man (for there were still no ships or sailing in those days) Lee

In the Bolivian story, Tunapa ran away from Azanaques and laid down in Pampa Aullagas, thus creating the ringed formation there, described as zones, belts or rings. Pampa Aullagas has remains of these zones of land and formerly sea when the lake level was higher.

12 there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference equidistant every way from the centre, Jowett

two being of land and three of sea, which he carved as it were out of the midst of the island; and these belts were at even distances on all sides Bury

There were two rings of land and three of sea, like cartwheels, with the island at their centre and equidistant from each other, Lee

At Pampa Aullagas there are two rings of land and three concentric canal-like depressions.

13 beginning from the sea they bored a canal of three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress.

At Pampa Aullagas there is to this day a canal or river which leads from the sea to the outer ring at the site and continues on to the level plain.

14 Moreover, they divided the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another

they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water.

The outer ring at Pampa Aullagas has a gap where ships could have sailed through.

15 Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land, were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width.

The stades used to describe the channels at Pampa Aullagas are units of 165ft which is 100 "Sumerian" cubits.

16 The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia

The central island or cone at Pampa Aullagas is five stades of 165ft wide on its summit.

17 The island and the circles they encompassed with a wall of stone. Bury

The site at Pampa Aullagas including the outer ring is encompassed in a wall of stone.

18 some being white, some black and some red.

Red, white and black stones are found at Pampa Aullagas.

19 Some of their buildings were simple, but in others they put together different stones, varying the colour to please the eye, and to be a natural source of delight.

At nearby Quillacas, the local church is built of red, black and white stones varied to give a pleasing appearance.

20 In the first place they dug out of the earth whatever was to be found there, mineral as well as metal, and that which is only a name and was something more than a name then, orichalc, was dug out of the earth in many parts of the island, and except gold was the most precious of metals Jowett

Metals to begin with, both the hard kind and the fusible kind, which are extracted by mining, and also that kind which is now known only by name but was more then a name then, there being mines of it in many parts of the island, - I mean "orichalcum" which was the most precious of the metals then known, except gold.
i.e. "mountain copper", a "sparkling" metal hard to identify.
Bury

It had mineral resources from which were mined both solid materials and metals, including one metal which survives today only in name, but was then mined in quantities in a number of locations in the island, orichalc, in those days the most valuable metal except gold. Lee
"a completely unknown and imaginery metal" Lee

Orichalcum is considered by Sir Desmond Lee to be a
"a completely unknown and imaginery metal"
but such a natural alloy exists only in the Andes where it is called Tumbaga. It can be polished and the copper surface dissolved out to resemble pure gold.


Orichalcum

21 The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with the red light of orichalcum. Jowett

And they covered with brass, as though with a plaster, all the circumference of the wall which surrounded the outermost circle; and that of the inner one they coated with tin; and that which encompassed the acropolis itself with orichalcum which sparkled like fire Bury

And they covered the whole circuit of the outermost wall with a veneer of bronze, they fused tin over the inner wall and orichalc gleaming like fire over the wall of the acropolis itself Lee

Brass, tin and orichalcum according to Jowett and Bury.

Bronze, tin and orichalcum according to Lee.

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.

Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin.

Orichalcum is an alloy of gold and copper.

All these metals and alloys are plentiful in the region around Lake Poopo, Bolivia including a mountain of silver, a mountain of gold and mountains chock full of tin near Oruro

22 All the outside of the temple, with the exception of the pinnacles, they covered with silver,

nearby Potosi was a mountain of solid silver

23 and the pinnacles with gold

gold was abundant in pre-Inca times. Nearby La Joya has the largest gold mine in modern Bolivia.

In the interior of the temple the roof was of ivory, curiously wrought everywhere with gold and silver and orichalcum Jowett

(ivory in appearance, variegated with gold and silver and orichalcum Bury)

all these metals exist all around the plain and Lake Poopo, Oruro is the centre of the mining industry.

and all the other parts, the walls and pillars and floor, they coated with orichalcum .

the naturally occurring alloy of gold and copper, it was customary in Inca times to cover the walls of building in sheets of gold or silver.

24 In the temple they placed statues of gold: And around the temple on the outside were placed statues of gold of all the descendants of the ten kings and of their wives

The custom of having golden statues of their ancestors continued into the time of the Incas

25 they had such an amount of wealth as was never before possessed by kings and potentates, and is not likely ever to be again

The land was so rich in gold it motivated the Spanish to it's conquest. Following the capture of Atahualpa at Cajamarca, the plunder of Peru began. From the Inca's camp alone, came "eighty thousand pesos of gold, seven thousand marks of silver and fourteen emeralds. The gold and silver was in monstrous effigies, large and small dishes, pitchers, jugs, basins and large drinking vessles, and various other pieces. Atahualpa said that this all came from his dinner service." ... Atahualpa subsequently offered a ransome to the Spaniards for his freedom. He promised to fill a room measuring 22 feet long by 17 feet height, up to a line 8 feet high, with gold and golden objects and this was to be completed within the space of two months.
The treasure trains began to arrive frequently and shortly afterwards the melting down of the treasure and destruction of all the historic and artistic pieces began. "Indian smiths carried out the melting on nine forges ... On many days the smiths were melting 60,000 pesos - over 600 pounds of gold. Over eleven tons of gold objects were fed into the furnaces of Cajamarca, to produce 13,420 pounds of 22½-carat 'good gold'; the silver objects yielded 26,000 pounds of good silver. (The spoils were subsequently divided amongst the conquistadors, a horseman received some 90 pounds of gold and 180 of silver, and foot-soldiers received half this amount.) Franciso Pizarro took seven times the horeseman's quota and also the throne on which Atahualpa had travelled - it was 15-carat gold and weighted 183 pounds. The Spanish Crown was rewarded with one fifth of all the gold, silver , jewels etc.


26 He himself, being a god, found no difficulty in making special arrangements for the centre island, bringing up two springs of water from beneath the earth, one of warm water and the other of cold

Hot and cold springs exist on the Altiplano and can be seen at Pazna. Underground pools also exist at Pampa Aullagas.
hot spring

cold spring

27 and they were wonderfully adapted for use by reason of the pleasantness and excellence of their waters.

On the Island of the Sun in Lake Titicaca can be seen Inca springs with three different types of water according to their properties.

28 also they made cisterns, some open to the heavens, others roofed over, to be used in winter as warm baths

At Pazna on the other side of Lake Poopo can be seen thermal baths and a large stone bath open to the elements.

29 The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human voices, and din and clatter of all sorts night and day.

From Pampa Aullagas, one could travel by boat to the far north-west corner of the plain or even as far away as to the northern end of Lake Titicaca, a distance of some 300 miles. The Uru culture was very much a water borne culture thriving along the aquatic axis of the Altiplano.

Because of their headship, they had a large supply of imports from abroad

It is a very large continent and "imports from abroad" could simply mean from other parts of the continent. However, in the museum at Oruro may be seen an amphora similar to those from the Eastern Mediterranean and the Fuente Magna dish found near Lake Titicaca with cuneiform writing also suggests a contact with ancient Sumeria.
See artefacts

I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the labours of many generations of kings through long ages.

30 The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; Jowett

The whole region rose sheer out of the sea to a great height, but the part about the city was all a smooth plain, enclosing it round about, and being itself encircled by mountains which stretched as far as to the sea; Bury

To begin with the region as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously; the city was surrounded by a uniformly flat plain, which was in turn enclosed by mountains which came right down to the sea. Lee

Note Jowett's translation…"precipitious on the side of the sea" The Altiplano is enclosed by mountains which just like the description, rise sheer out of the sea to a great height on the Western side of the plain i.e. on the side of the Pacific Ocean. The whole region, as Plato says, is high above the level of the (Ocean) sea and the mountains enclose it round about.

31 the plain was smooth and even Jowett

and this plain had a level surface Bury

a uniformly flat plain Lee

The Altiplano is smooth and level, the largest level plain in the world.

32 and of an oblong shape, It was for the most part rectangular and oblong, Jowett

and was as a whole rectangular in shape, This plain was rectangular in shape, It was originally a quadrangle, rectilinear for the most part, and elongated; Bury

It was naturally a long, regular rectangle; Lee

The Altiplano near Lake Poopo is indeed rectangular in shape and elongated, or as Lee says, a long, narrow rectangle.

33 extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia Jowett

being 3000 stades long on either side and 2000 stades wide at its centre, reckoning upwards from the sea. Bury

measuring three thousand stades in length and at its mid-point two thousand stades in breadth from the coast. Lee

The Altiplano near lake Poopo is in the proportion of 3,000 by 2,000 wide, the unit here being a half-furlong i.e. 330ft instead of the Greek 600ft stade, so it measures across the centre from the sea 2,000 and lengthwise 3,000 half-furlongs.

34 and what it lacked of this shape they made right by means of a trench dug round about it. Now, as regards the depth of this trench and its breadth and length, it seems incredible that it should be so large as the account states, considering that it was made by hand, and in addition to all the other operations, but nonetheless we must report what we heard.: It was dug out to the depth of a plethrum and to a uniform breadth of a stade, and since it was dug round the whole plain its consequent length was 10,000 stades.

In the desert north-west of Lake Poopo there is a feature resembling a giant canal of the dimensions Plato has given. It joins pools of natural underground springs and is used by the locals to pasture their flocks. The elevations of the rectangular Altiplano are such that a canal could be dug around its perimeter in the fashion Plato described.

The plain was for the most part rectangular and oblong,

and where falling out of the straight line followed the circular ditch. Jowett

It (the canal) made a complete circuit of the plain, running round to the city from both directions, and there discharging into the sea Lee

and (the canal) winding round the plain Donnelly

It is the plain which is rectangular and measures 3,000 x 2,000 "stades", or half-furlongs, sometimes the canal system is shown in a chequerboard pattern but other translations say it "wound its way around the plain" implying it followed natural contours and avoided obstacles such as volcanic outcrops.

35 The depth, and width, and length of this ditch were incredible, and gave the impression that a work of such extent, in addition to so many others, could never have been artificial. Nevertheless I must say what I was told. It was excavated to the depth of a hundred, feet, and to a uniform breadth of a stade.

The section visited on site was so large that the local archaeologist did not believe that it had been made by hand however a local geologist studying air photos of the feature asserted it was indeed artificial.

36 It received the streams which came down from the mountains and after circling round the plain, and coming towards the city on this side and on that, it discharged them thereabouts into the sea.

There are streams which come down from the mountains surrounding the plain and a perimeter canal could discharge them into Lake Poopo.

37 And on the inland side of the city channels were cut in straight lines, of about 100 feet in width, across the plain, and these discharged themselves into the trench on the seaward side, the distance between each being 100 stades.

Canals in parallel lines are a feature of the zone south of Oruro

38 It was in this way that they conveyed to the city the timber from the mountains and transported also on boats the seasons' products, by cutting transverse passages from one channel to the next and also to the city.

There were formerly trees around the Altiplano, much of the original vegetation was destroyed by the Spaniards and the animals they brought with them. The Uru peoples still use reed boats for transportation today and the tradition of building reed boats is kept alive by local boatbuilders.
see The Urus

39 The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work.

The surrounding mountains are high volcanic peaks such as Sajama 21,464ft, Ilampu 21067ft, Illimani 21005ft and there are indeed many villages, meadows, rivers, lakes etc.

40 Twice in the year they gathered the fruits of the earth - in winter having the benefit of the rains of heaven, and in summer the water which the land supplied by introducing streams from the canals

Where raised fields surrounded by artificial canals have been restored near Lake Titicaca they have been able to harvest two crops per year and would have been able to sustain a vastly greater population than today. The water table was a delicately balanced system and in some periods would flow from Lake Titicaca to the south whereas at other times it could flow northwards.

41 This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north

This refers to the summit of the central cone at Pampa Aullagas which faces south and is sheltered from the north by the volcanic rim on the northern side.

42 He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children

The whole country was divided into ten kingdoms, they were therefore twin kingdoms. The Aymara kingdoms around Lake Poopo were similarly divided into twin kingdoms and according to Huaman Poma, the first inhabitants were also born in pairs, not only that but Viracocha adopted five pairs of twin sons and the first Incas were also said to have been four pairs of brothers and sisters. Pairs or twins are very prevalent in Andean sculpture and pottery.

43 Moreover, there were a great number of elephants in the island

Remains of Mastodons which are a species of elephant may be seen in the museum in Tarija to the south of the plain.

44 there was provision for all other sorts of animals, both for those which live in lakes and marshes and rivers, and also for those which live in mountains and on plains,

The country is full of lakes, marshes and rivers.

45 Also whatever fragrant things there now are in the earth, whether roots, or herbage, or woods, or essences which distil from fruit and flower, grew and thrived in that land;

it also grows every conceivable product in abundance

46 And of the inhabitants of the mountains and of the rest of the country there was also a vast multitude

Huaman Poma recorded that there was a vast population before the time of the Incas and that the watercourses, reservoirs etc could not easily be repeated.

47 For many generations, as long as the divine nature lasted in them, they were obedient to the laws, for they possessed true and in every way great spirits, uniting gentleness with wisdom in the various chances of life, and in their intercourse with one another.

They despised everything but virtue, caring little for their present state of life, and thinking lightly of the possession of gold and other property, which seemed only a burden to them;

neither were they intoxicated by luxury; nor did wealth deprive them of their self-control;

but they were sober, and saw clearly that all these goods are increased by virtue and friendship with one another,

whereas by too great regard and respect for them, they are lost and friendship with them.

but when the divine portion began to fade away, and became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts;

but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power.

Zeus, the god of gods, who rules according to law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honourable race was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improve, collected all the gods into their most holy habitation, which, being placed in the centre of the world, beholds all created things. And when he had called them together, he spake as follows...

According to the Bolivian legend, the god Tunapa walked amongst the people and tried to persuade them from their bad habits but was cast adrift in a boat and eventually drowned in the waters of Pampa Aullagas when the city was also destroyed by earthquakes and floods sent as a punishment by the gods.

48 The name "Atlantis."

Atlantis sometimes known as Atlanticus or the Atlantic Island according to Plato was derived from the name of the first king, Atlas. In mythology, Atlas was the god who held up the heavens and knew all about astronomy. The Andes mountains could easily be considered as the "pillars" which hold up the sky and the Altiplano is known locally as the place where Heaven meets Earth. The Tiwanaku calendar also shows an advanced knowledge of astronomy with both a solar calendar based on 20 months and a lunar calendar based on 40 sidereal lunar months. The names of Greek gods are thought to have been borrowed from near eastern gods, yet "atl" is a typical Mexican or Aztec prefix.

49 "Atl" means "water" in Aztec Nahuatl.

In the wet season large parts of Amazonia and the region known as the Beni in what is now Bolivia are under water as are parts of the Altiplano which also floods rapidly.

"Uma" is the Aymara word for water and Umasuyo the Aymara name for the eastern half of the Andes - the kingdom of water.

The Altiplano itself was also a water kingdom with it's inland seas of Lakes Titicaca and Poopo connected by the River Desaguadero.

50 the name "Atlantis" = atl + antis.

"Antis" means "copper" in Quechua of the Incas. It is also the origin of the "Andes" mountains making Atlantis the perfect name for the continent we today call South America.

The Inca name for their country was "Tahuantinsuyo" meaning "Land of the Four Quarters" and one quarter of their empire was "Antisuyo" - kingdom of the Antis Indians. Antis Indians

The above 50 points show that the basis for Plato's tale of Atlantis comes from a people and region in South America. These points match in remarkable detail the Altiplano in Bolivia including such rare features as the plain being "midway along the longest side of the continent", the metal, orichalcum, considered by Sir Desmond Lee to be imaginery but which in fact exists there as a natural alloy and other factors such as the first inhabitants being born in pairs.

The story can be proven to be true up to a point, i.e. the level rectangular plain with the island capital which was originally a low mountain where the god of the sea married one of the locals, then broke it off to make it impregnable to man, creating rings of land and sea etc and it's subsequent destruction by earthquakes and floods.

The metals used to plate the walls of the city, gold, silver, copper, tin and orichalcum all exist here in plentiful supply as not found elsewhere in the world.

Even elephants belong to South America in the form of mastodons, remains of which, along with remains of trees have recently been found on the shores of Lake Titicaca.

More out of place is the description supposedly in the centre of the larger ring of land of the "racecourse laid out for horses" since riding horses were unknown in the Americas prior to the Conquest. Similarly "and round about it, on this side and on that, were barracks for the greater part of the spearmen; but the guard-house of the more trusty of them was posted in the smaller circle, which was nearer the acropolis; while those who were the most trustworthy of all had dwellings granted to them within the acropolis round about the persons of the kings." here we have a hint of Plato's political doctrine possibly creeping in while let us consider further his description of the occupants of the plain;

"each leader should provide for war the sixth part of a war-chariot's equipment, so as to make up 10,000 chariots in all, together with two horses and mounted men; also a pair of horses without a car, and attached thereto a combattant with a small shield and for charioteer the rider who springs from horse to horse; and two hoplites; and archers and slingers, two of each; and light-armed slingers and javelin-men, three of each; and four sailors towards the manning of twelve hundred ships."

As mentioned earlier, riding horses were previously unknown in the Americas, as were chariots, but since land armies also attacked Egypt at the time of the Sea Peoples, could this be a description of these land armies? On the other hand, the number of ships involved, 1200, is the same number that sailed against Troy suggesting that the war described by Plato which he called "a very great exploit, worthy indeed to be accounted the most notable of all exploits, which was performed by this city (Athens)" was perhaps the Trojan War, particularly since he says "9,000 is the sum of years since the war occurred" which if substituting months for years would give us a date of 1260BC - the actual date of the Trojan war.

The Trojan War was followed by the attacks of the Sea Peoples upon Egypt and some time later the Persians re-captured the Asiatic coastline opposite Athens, subsequently crossing over to enter Athens and burn it to the ground, but the Persian fleet which incidentally was said to have also numbered 1200 ships was defeated by the Greeks and the Persian armies repulsed so...

It seems probable that Plato aquired the geographic details and legend of a sunken city on the Altiplano as he claimed from Egypt and added a few embellishments drawn from other legends, he was not talking about an actual Athens but a theoretical Athens governed by philosopher kings, so polished up the story in the process to make it worthy of his political dialogues for which he became famous.

Atlantis 50 points test
The Atlantis 50 points test
from
Beyond the 24 points of the Atlantis Conference

This page updated by Jim Allen 1st Nov 2010
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