Plato's Statements Comparison of 50 Points
First we can consider the work of the Atlantis Milos Conference (2005) with
an analysis of the 24 points of the Atlantis Milos Conference.
Bolivia
matches 20 of these points chosen by the Atlantis Conference, a far higher number than any other candidate,
but can easily match 50 of Plato's details which are given along with examples from his texts further down the page.
1.The
Metropolis of Atlantis should have been located where an island used to be and
where parts of it may still exist.
2. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have had a most distinct geomorphology
composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water.
3. The Atlantis should have been located outside the Pillars of Hercules.
4. The Metropolis of Atlantis was greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle
East and Sinai (combined). (This should read the overall island was greater than Libya and Asia)
5. Atlantis must have sheltered a literate population with metallurgical and
navigational skills.
6. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been routinely reachable from Athens
by sea.
7. At the time, Atlantis should have been at war with Athens.
8. The Metropolis of Athens (sic) must have suffered a devastating physical
destruction of unprecedented proportions. (should have read metropolis of Atlantis?)
9. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have sunk entirely or partly below the
water.
10. The Metropolis of Atlantis was destroyed 9000 Egyptian years before the 6th
century B.C.
11. The part of Atlantis was 50 stadia (7,5 km) from the city.
12. Atlantis had a high population density, enough to support a large army
(10,000 chariots, 1,200 ships, 1,200,000 hoplites)
13. The region of Atlantis involved the sacrifice of bulls.
14. The destruction of Atlantis was accompanied by an earthquake.
15. After the destruction of Atlantis, the passage of ships was blocked.
16. Elephants were present in Atlantis.
17.
No physically or geologically impossible processes were involved in the
destruction of Atlantis.
18. Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits, were present in Atlantis.
19. Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains
falling into the sea.
20. Atlantis controlled other states of the period.
21. Winds in Atlantis came from the north (only in Northern hemisphere)
22. The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red.
23. There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis.
24. Every 5th and 6th year, they sacrificed bulls.
Using the above criteria, independently arrived at by the conference participants, the editor of this page has compiled the following table which illustrates how the various locations proposed for Atlantis may fit or not fit, as the case may be, the criteria for Atlantis as defined by the Conference.
Atlantis
conference Milos List location
and features |
Bolivan Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
1.The
Metropolis of Atlantis should have been located where an island used to be
and where parts of it may still exist. |
Yes, at Pampa
Aullagas, easily
verified ![]() |
No |
Yes |
Malta Is an island, none of it is missing |
Diving expeditions have found nothing. |
Nothing found |
Yes |
Claimed, but never verified, no proof has ever been offered
|
Various islands, none in particular known to be missing |
No |
Yes |
|
2.
The Metropolis of Atlantis should have had a most distinct geomorphology
composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water. |
Bolivian Altiplano
|
Cyprus |
Thera
|
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure | |
3.
Atlantis should have been located outside the Pillars of Hercules. |
Bolivian Altiplano Yes ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia but
Plato said it was in the Atlantic Ocean |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
4.
The Metropolis of Atlantis was greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle
East and Sinai (combined). |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
5.
Atlantis must have sheltered a literate population with metallurgical and
navigational skills. |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera ![]() |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
6.
The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been routinely reachable from Athens
by sea. |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
7.
At the time, Atlantis should have been at war with Athens. |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
8.
The Metropolis of Atlantis must have suffered a devastating physical
destruction of unprecedented proportions. |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
9.
The Metropolis of Atlantis should have sunk entirely or partly below the
water. |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera ![]() |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
10.
The Metropolis of Atlantis was destroyed 9000 Egyptian years before the 6th
century B.C. |
Bolivian Altiplano
|
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
11.
The part of Atlantis was 50 stadia (7,5 km) from the city. This should
read the sea was 50 stadia from the city |
Bolivian altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
12.
Atlantis had a high population density, enough to support a large army
(10,000 chariots, 1,200 ships, 1,200,000 hoplites) |
Bolivian altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
13.
The region of Atlantis involved the sacrifice of bulls. |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera Bull
games on crete ![]() |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
14.
The destruction of Atlantis was accompanied by an earthquake. |
Bolivan Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera ![]() |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba earthquake zone |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
15.
After the destruction of Atlantis, the passage of ships was blocked. |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera ![]() |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
16. Elephants were present in Atlantis. |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malasia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
17.
No physically or geologically impossible processes were involved in the
destruction of Atlantis |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus No |
Thera |
Malta no
sunken island |
Straits of Gibraltar No |
Doņana marshes south of Spain No |
Azores entire
continents cannot sink in a single day |
Off Cuba earthquake zone |
Malaysia entire
continents cannot sink in a single day |
Antarctica has
been under ice for a longer period than Platos timescale |
Richat Structure is a natural feature with no impossible processes |
|
18.
Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits, were present in Atlantis. Editors
note, the minerals were gold, silver, copper, tin and orichalcum |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
19.
Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains
falling into the sea. |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
20.
Atlantis controlled other states of the period. |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult
to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
|
21.
Winds in Atlantis came from the north (only in Northern hemisphere) |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult
to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
|
22.
The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red. |
Bolivian Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera Yes usual of a volcanic environment ![]() |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores usual of a volcanic environment |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
23.
There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis. |
Bolivian Altiplano ![]() |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malaysia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
24.
Every 5th and 6th year, they sacrificed bulls. |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult
to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
Difficult to prove |
No |
Difficult to prove |
|
Totals
|
Bolivan Altiplano |
Cyprus |
Thera |
Malta |
Straits of Gibraltar |
Doņana marshes south of Spain |
Azores |
Off Cuba |
Malasia |
Antarctica |
Richat Structure |
|
From the above criteria as
defined by the Milos conference, the key points must surely be the
geographic description of the island
i.e. in particular (2) that it should have a particular geomorphology
composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water, (3) should have been located
outside the Pillars
of Hercules, (4) The Metropolis of Atlantis was
greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle East
and Sinai combined (18) Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits
(gold, silver, copper and tin),
were
present in Atlantis,
(19) Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains falling into
the sea, (22) The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red,
(23) There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis.
The only candidate site which
contains an island with the specific geomorphology of the alternating rings of
land and water, destroyed by earthquakes and floods and which also lies on a rectangular
level plain which in turn is in the centre of a continent opposite the Pillars
of Hercules is Pampa Aullagas on the Bolvian Altiplano and the lack of these key,
determining features surely disqualifies the other candidates. In other words, it is pointless for people to keep
putting forward, for example, Thera as the site of Atlantis when it matches so little of the description whilst at the
same time ignoring the only unique site which actually does match the description.
We can now look at some of the words Plato actually used to describe Atlantis.
In some of the following paragraphs, the three different translations by Benjamin Jowett,
R.G.Bury (1929)
and Sir Desmond Lee (1971) are given in order to try and
amplify the original text and additional material is provided to demonstrate how the Bolivian Altiplano
matches
Plato's description.
from the Timaeus: |
Interpretation and comments |
Then listen, Socrates, to a tale which, though strange, is certainly true And what is this ancient famous action of the Athenians, which Critias declared, on the authority of Solon, to be not a mere legend, but an actual fact? And what other, Critias, can we find that will be better than this, which is natural and suitable to the festival of the goddess, and has the very great advantage of being a fact and not a fiction? |
Plato says three times that the Atlantis story is a true story. He says that they are going to use this story as the basis of a story which they will use and build upon at the festival of Athena |
you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given to foreigners Solon, who was intending to use the tale for his poem, enquired into the meaning of the names, and found that the early Egyptians in writing them down had translated them into their own language, and he recovered the meaning of the several names and when copying them out again translated them into our language |
Poseidon was the Greek god of the sea, known as Neptune in Rome and Tunapa in Bolivia. Other words such as Trireme is the familiar Greek name for a ship or warship. |
She founded your city a thousand years before ours, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old. |
According to the tale, Egypt was founded around 8,500BC and Athens in 9,500BC |
As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago, |
There is no record of civilisations in Egypt or Greece in 9,600BC, but Plato uses the same date for the destruction of Atlantis as he does for the founding of Greece and the wars between Atlantis, Greece and Egypt. |
1 For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, Jowett For it is related in our records how once upon a time your state stayed the course of a mighty host, which, starting from a distant point in the Atlantic ocean, Bury Our records tell how your city checked a great power which arrogantly advanced from its base in the Atlantic ocean Lee |
Atlantis was located in the Atlantic Ocean. It is pointless to try and
relocate Atlantis to within the Straits or move the Straits to inside the
Mediterranean, because the text clearly says Atlantis was a continent in
the Atlantic Ocean.
|
2 there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; Jowett in front of the mouth which you Greeks call, as you say, "the pillars of Heracles" Bury There was an island opposite the strait which you call (so you say) the Pillars of Heracles, Lee |
The island of Atlantis was located in front of or opposite the Straits
of Gibraltar (Pillars of Hercules). South America is the "island" opposite
the Strait of Gibraltar.
|
3 the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, |
Atlantis was a continent as large as Libya (North Africa) and Asia combined. South America is an immense continent which is virtually an island
in its own right and easily comparible in size to Libya (North Africa) and Asia
combined whether considerd on its own or combined with its twin continent of North America.
|
4 and was the way to other islands |
Beyond South America there are islands in the Pacific |
5 and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; |
which lead to "the opposite continent" i.e to Asia, the true ocean
being the Atlantic and Pacific combined and which surrounds all of the
Earth
|
Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits |
This sounds like a description of the war by the "Sea Peoples" against
Egypt which took place around 1226BC and 1186BC. The "Sea Peoples" also
advanced by land, entering Egypt from Palestine and
Libya.
|
6 afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. Jowett At a later time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and one grievous day and night befell them, and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished Bury At a later time there were earthquakes and floods of extraordinary violence, and in one single dreadful day and night the island of Atlantis was swallowed up by the sea and vanished; Lee |
Atlantis was destroyed by earthquakes and floods. The Altiplano has
periodically been subject to climatic change in the form of alternating
inland seas (lakes Minchin, Tauca, Coipasa) and dry periods. It is also
prone to earthquakes, evidence of which can be seen at Pampa Aullagas
where the volcano and the surrounding plain has been sunk by earthquakes.
It was only the capital island city of Atlantis which sank into the sea,
not the whole continent. |
7 For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. Jowett wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearcheable, being blocked up by the shoal mud which the island threw up as it settled down Bury this is why the sea in that area is to this day impassable to navigation, which is hindered by mud just below the surface, the remains of the sunken island. Lee |
The inland sea of Lake Poopo formerly called Lake Aullagas is sometimes
entirely impassable to boats when it dries up in the dry season. Plato
implied that the island of Atlantis was swallowed up by the sea and
disappeared beneath the earth, but Sir Francis Bacon said Plato got it
wrong and the sea rose to cover the city.
|
from Critias: |
|
that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war |
Nine thousand years previously was given as the date for the founding of Athens but is also given as the date for the war and end of Atlantis. Clearly there is an error here, but if the 9,000 years were taken as lunar months then it would be 1260BC which is the date of the Trojan war and more or less the date of the founding of Athens (1400BC) by Theseus. It is unlikely that Atlantis could have existed on the Altiplano in 9,600BC since at that time it had already been under the waters of Lake Tauca for some time. When Lake Tauca dried up, there were periods of alternating droughts and floods and Atlantis could have begun in any of these periods continuing perhaps up to the date of around 1260BC (substituting months for years) which Plato gave for the war and Atlantis' subsequent destruction. |
8 Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain Jowett Bordering on the sea and extending through the centre of the whole island there was a plain Bury At the centre of the island (ie midway along its greatest length,) near the sea, was a plain Lee |
This plain is the Altiplano, which not only is on the centre of the
whole continent, but as Lee says, it is midway along its longest side. |
9 Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side. Jowett and, moreover, near the plain, over against its centre, at a distance of about fifty stades, there stood a mountain that was low on all sides. Bury and near the middle of this plain about fifty stades inland a hill of no great size. Lee |
At this location we find the volcanic mountain of Pampa Aullagas, a
central cone on top of a low plateau fifty stades or five miles from the
inland sea of Lake Poopo |
10 Theron dwelt one of the natives originally sprung from the earth and Poseidon, being smitten with desire for her, wedded her. Bury |
This corresponds to the tale of Tunapa, God of the lakes and rivers who married Azanques, god of a hill opposite Pampa Aullagas. |
11 Poseidon ...breaking the ground, enclosed the hill all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger and smaller, encircling one another; so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet Jowett Poseidon...to make the hill impregnable he broke it off all round about; and he made circular belts of sea and land enclosing one another alternately, some greater, some smaller, , so as to be impassable for man; for at that time neither ships nor sailing were yet in existence. Bury Poseidon...fortified the hill by enclosing it with concentric rings of sea and land, making the place impassable for man (for there were still no ships or sailing in those days) Lee |
In the Bolivian story, Tunapa ran away from Azanaques and laid down in
Pampa Aullagas, thus creating the ringed formation there, described as
zones, belts or rings. Pampa Aullagas
has remains of these zones of land and formerly sea when the lake level
was higher. |
12 there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference equidistant every way from the centre, Jowett two being of land and three of sea, which he carved as it were out of the midst of the island; and these belts were at even distances on all sides Bury There were two rings of land and three of sea, like cartwheels, with the island at their centre and equidistant from each other, Lee |
At Pampa Aullagas there are two rings of land and three concentric canal-like depressions.
|
13 beginning from the sea they bored a canal of three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress. |
At Pampa Aullagas there is to this day a canal or river which leads
from the sea to the outer ring at the site and continues on to the level
plain. |
14 Moreover, they divided the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water. |
The outer ring at Pampa Aullagas has a gap where ships could have sailed through. |
15 Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land, were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width. |
The stades used to describe the channels at Pampa Aullagas are units of 165ft which is 100 "Sumerian" cubits.
|
16 The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia |
The central island or cone at Pampa Aullagas is five stades of 165ft wide on its summit.
|
17 The island and the circles they encompassed with a wall of stone. Bury |
The site at Pampa Aullagas including the outer ring is encompassed in a
wall of stone. |
18 some being white, some black and some red. |
Red, white and black stones are found at Pampa Aullagas.
|
19 Some of their buildings were simple, but in others they put together different stones, varying the colour to please the eye, and to be a natural source of delight. |
At nearby Quillacas, the local church is built of red, black and white
stones varied to give a pleasing appearance. |
20 In the first place they dug out of the earth whatever was to be found there, mineral as well as metal, and that which is only a name and was something more than a name then, orichalc, was dug out of the earth in many parts of the island, and except gold was the most precious of metals Jowett Metals to begin with, both the hard kind and the fusible kind, which
are extracted by mining, and also that kind which is now known only by
name but was more then a name then, there being mines of it in many parts
of the island, - I mean "orichalcum" which was the most precious of the
metals then known, except gold. It had mineral resources from which were mined both solid materials and
metals, including one metal which survives today only in name, but was
then mined in quantities in a number of locations in the island, orichalc,
in those days the most valuable metal except gold. Lee |
Orichalcum is considered by Sir Desmond Lee to be a ![]() |
21 The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with the red light of orichalcum. Jowett And they covered with brass, as though with a plaster, all the circumference of the wall which surrounded the outermost circle; and that of the inner one they coated with tin; and that which encompassed the acropolis itself with orichalcum which sparkled like fire Bury And they covered the whole circuit of the outermost wall with a veneer of bronze, they fused tin over the inner wall and orichalc gleaming like fire over the wall of the acropolis itself Lee |
Brass, tin and orichalcum according to Jowett and Bury. Bronze, tin and orichalcum according to Lee. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Orichalcum is an alloy of gold and copper. All these metals and alloys are plentiful in the region around Lake
Poopo, Bolivia including a mountain of silver, a mountain of gold and mountains chock full of tin near Oruro
|
22 All the outside of the temple, with the exception of the pinnacles, they covered with silver, |
nearby Potosi was a mountain of solid silver |
23 and the pinnacles with gold |
gold was abundant in pre-Inca times. Nearby La Joya has the largest gold mine in modern Bolivia.
|
In the interior of the temple the roof was of ivory, curiously wrought everywhere with gold and silver and orichalcum Jowett (ivory in appearance, variegated with gold and silver and orichalcum Bury) |
all these metals exist all around the plain and Lake
Poopo, Oruro is the centre of the mining industry.
|
and all the other parts, the walls and pillars and floor, they coated with orichalcum . |
the naturally occurring alloy of gold and copper, it was customary in Inca times to cover the walls of building in sheets of gold or silver. |
24 In the temple they placed statues of gold: And around the temple on the outside were placed statues of gold of all the descendants of the ten kings and of their wives |
The custom of having golden statues of their ancestors continued into
the time of the Incas |
25 they had such an amount of wealth as was never before possessed by kings and potentates, and is not likely ever to be again |
The land was so rich in gold it
motivated the Spanish to it's conquest.
Following
the capture of Atahualpa at Cajamarca, the plunder of Peru began. From
the Inca's camp alone, came "eighty thousand pesos of gold, seven
thousand marks of silver and fourteen emeralds. The gold and silver was
in monstrous effigies, large and small dishes, pitchers, jugs, basins
and large drinking vessles, and various other pieces. Atahualpa said
that this all came from his dinner service." ... Atahualpa subsequently
offered a ransome to the Spaniards for his freedom. He promised to fill
a room measuring 22 feet long by 17 feet height, up to a line 8 feet
high, with gold and golden objects and this was to be completed within
the space of two months.
|
26 He himself, being a god, found no difficulty in making special arrangements for the centre island, bringing up two springs of water from beneath the earth, one of warm water and the other of cold |
Hot and cold springs exist on the Altiplano and can be seen at Pazna.
Underground pools also exist at Pampa Aullagas.
|
27 and they were wonderfully adapted for use by reason of the pleasantness and excellence of their waters. |
On the Island of the Sun in Lake Titicaca can be seen Inca springs with
three different types of water according to their properties. |
28 also they made cisterns, some open to the heavens, others roofed over, to be used in winter as warm baths |
At Pazna on the other side of Lake Poopo can be seen thermal baths and a large stone bath open to the elements. |
29 The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human voices, and din and clatter of all sorts night and day. |
From Pampa Aullagas, one could travel by boat to the far north-west corner of the plain or even as far away as to the northern end of Lake Titicaca, a distance of some 300 miles. The Uru culture was very much a water borne culture thriving along the aquatic axis of the Altiplano. |
Because of their headship, they had a large supply of imports from abroad |
It is a very large continent and "imports from abroad" could simply
mean from other parts of the continent. However, in the museum at Oruro
may be seen an amphora similar to those from the Eastern Mediterranean and
the Fuente Magna dish found near Lake Titicaca with cuneiform writing also
suggests a contact with ancient Sumeria.
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I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the labours of many generations of kings through long ages. |
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30 The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; Jowett The whole region rose sheer out of the sea to a great height, but the part about the city was all a smooth plain, enclosing it round about, and being itself encircled by mountains which stretched as far as to the sea; Bury To begin with the region as a whole was said to be high above the level of the sea, from which it rose precipitously; the city was surrounded by a uniformly flat plain, which was in turn enclosed by mountains which came right down to the sea. Lee |
Note Jowett's translation
"precipitious on the side of the sea" The Altiplano is enclosed by mountains which just like the
description, rise sheer out of the sea to a great height on the Western
side of the plain i.e. on the side of the Pacific Ocean. The whole region,
as Plato says, is high above the level of the (Ocean) sea and the
mountains enclose it round about.
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31 the plain was smooth and even Jowett and this plain had a level surface Bury a uniformly flat plain Lee |
The Altiplano is smooth and level, the largest level plain in the
world. |
32 and of an oblong shape, It was for the most part rectangular and oblong, Jowett and was as a whole rectangular in shape, This plain was rectangular in shape, It was originally a quadrangle, rectilinear for the most part, and elongated; Bury It was naturally a long, regular rectangle; Lee |
The Altiplano near Lake Poopo is indeed rectangular in shape and
elongated, or as Lee says, a long, narrow rectangle. |
33 extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia Jowett being 3000 stades long on either side and 2000 stades wide at its centre, reckoning upwards from the sea. Bury measuring three thousand stades in length and at its mid-point two thousand stades in breadth from the coast. Lee |
The Altiplano near lake Poopo is in the proportion of 3,000 by
2,000 wide, the unit here being a half-furlong i.e. 330ft instead of the
Greek 600ft stade, so it measures across the centre from the sea 2,000 and lengthwise 3,000 half-furlongs.
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34 and what it lacked of this shape they made right by means of a trench dug round about it. Now, as regards the depth of this trench and its breadth and length, it seems incredible that it should be so large as the account states, considering that it was made by hand, and in addition to all the other operations, but nonetheless we must report what we heard.: It was dug out to the depth of a plethrum and to a uniform breadth of a stade, and since it was dug round the whole plain its consequent length was 10,000 stades. |
In the desert north-west of Lake Poopo there is a feature resembling a
giant canal of the dimensions Plato has given. It joins pools of natural
underground springs and is used by the locals to pasture their flocks. The
elevations of the rectangular Altiplano are such that a canal could be dug
around its perimeter in the fashion Plato described. |
The plain was for the most part rectangular and oblong, and where falling out of the straight line followed the circular ditch. Jowett It (the canal) made a complete circuit of the plain, running round to the city from both directions, and there discharging into the sea Lee and (the canal) winding round the plain Donnelly |
It is the plain which is rectangular and measures 3,000 x 2,000
"stades", or half-furlongs, sometimes the canal system is shown in a chequerboard pattern
but other translations say it "wound its way around the plain" implying it
followed natural contours and avoided obstacles such as volcanic
outcrops.
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35 The depth, and width, and length of this ditch were incredible, and gave the impression that a work of such extent, in addition to so many others, could never have been artificial. Nevertheless I must say what I was told. It was excavated to the depth of a hundred, feet, and to a uniform breadth of a stade. |
The section visited on site was so large that the local archaeologist
did not believe that it had been made by hand
however a local geologist studying air photos of the feature asserted it
was indeed artificial.
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36 It received the streams which came down from the mountains and after circling round the plain, and coming towards the city on this side and on that, it discharged them thereabouts into the sea. |
There are streams which come down from the mountains surrounding the plain and a perimeter canal could discharge them into Lake Poopo. |
37 And on the inland side of the city channels were cut in straight lines, of about 100 feet in width, across the plain, and these discharged themselves into the trench on the seaward side, the distance between each being 100 stades. |
Canals in parallel lines are a feature of the zone south of Oruro
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38 It was in this way that they conveyed to the city the timber from the mountains and transported also on boats the seasons' products, by cutting transverse passages from one channel to the next and also to the city. |
There were formerly trees around the Altiplano, much of the original
vegetation was destroyed by the Spaniards and the animals they brought
with them. The Uru peoples still use reed boats for transportation today
and the tradition of building reed boats is kept alive by local boatbuilders.
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39 The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work. |
The surrounding mountains are high volcanic peaks such as Sajama
21,464ft, Ilampu 21067ft, Illimani 21005ft and there are indeed many
villages, meadows, rivers, lakes etc. |
40 Twice in the year they gathered the fruits of the earth - in winter having the benefit of the rains of heaven, and in summer the water which the land supplied by introducing streams from the canals |
Where raised fields surrounded by artificial canals have been restored near Lake Titicaca they have
been able to harvest two crops per year and would have been able to
sustain a vastly greater population than today. The water table was a
delicately balanced system and in some periods would flow from Lake
Titicaca to the south whereas at other times it could flow northwards.
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41 This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north |
This refers to the summit of the central cone at Pampa Aullagas which faces south and
is sheltered from the north by the volcanic rim on the northern side.
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42 He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children |
The
whole country was divided into ten kingdoms, they were therefore twin
kingdoms. The Aymara kingdoms around Lake Poopo were similarly divided
into twin kingdoms and according to Huaman Poma, the first inhabitants
were also born in pairs, not only that but Viracocha adopted five pairs
of twin sons and the first Incas were also said to have been four pairs
of brothers and sisters. Pairs or twins are very prevalent in Andean
sculpture and pottery. |
43 Moreover, there were a great number of elephants in the island |
Remains of Mastodons which are a species of elephant may be seen in the museum in Tarija to the south
of the plain.
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44 there was provision for all other sorts of animals, both for those which live in lakes and marshes and rivers, and also for those which live in mountains and on plains, |
The country is full of lakes, marshes and rivers. |
45 Also whatever fragrant things there now are in the earth, whether roots, or herbage, or woods, or essences which distil from fruit and flower, grew and thrived in that land; |
it also grows every conceivable product in abundance
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46 And of the inhabitants of the mountains and of the rest of the country there was also a vast multitude |
Huaman Poma recorded that there was a vast population before the time of the Incas and that the watercourses, reservoirs etc could not easily be repeated. |
47 For many generations, as long as the divine nature lasted in them, they were obedient to the laws, for they possessed true and in every way great spirits, uniting gentleness with wisdom in the various chances of life, and in their intercourse with one another. They despised everything but virtue, caring little for their present state of life, and thinking lightly of the possession of gold and other property, which seemed only a burden to them; neither were they intoxicated by luxury; nor did wealth deprive them of their self-control; but they were sober, and saw clearly that all these goods are increased by virtue and friendship with one another, whereas by too great regard and respect for them, they are lost and friendship with them. but when the divine portion began to fade away, and became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power. Zeus, the god of gods, who rules according to law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honourable race was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improve, collected all the gods into their most holy habitation, which, being placed in the centre of the world, beholds all created things. And when he had called them together, he spake as follows... |
According to the Bolivian legend, the god Tunapa walked amongst the
people and tried to persuade them from their bad habits but was cast
adrift in a boat and eventually drowned in the waters of Pampa Aullagas
when the city was also destroyed by earthquakes and floods sent as a
punishment by the gods. |
48 The name "Atlantis."
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Atlantis sometimes known as Atlanticus or the Atlantic Island according to Plato was derived from the name of the first king, Atlas. In mythology, Atlas was the god who held up the heavens and knew all about astronomy. The Andes mountains could easily be considered as the "pillars" which hold up the sky and the Altiplano is known locally as the place where Heaven meets Earth. The Tiwanaku calendar also shows an advanced knowledge of astronomy with both a solar calendar based on 20 months and a lunar calendar based on 40 sidereal lunar months. The names of Greek gods are thought to have been borrowed from near eastern gods, yet "atl" is a typical Mexican or Aztec prefix.
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49 "Atl" means "water" in Aztec Nahuatl. In the wet season large parts of Amazonia and the region known as the Beni in what is now Bolivia are under water as are parts of the Altiplano which also floods rapidly. |
"Uma" is the Aymara word for water and Umasuyo the Aymara name for the eastern half of the Andes - the kingdom of water. The Altiplano itself was also a water kingdom with it's inland seas of Lakes Titicaca and Poopo connected by the River Desaguadero.
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50 the name "Atlantis" = atl + antis. "Antis" means "copper" in Quechua of the Incas. It is also the origin of the "Andes" mountains making Atlantis the perfect name for the continent we today call South America. |
The Inca name for their country was "Tahuantinsuyo" meaning "Land of the Four Quarters" and
one quarter of their empire was "Antisuyo" - kingdom of
the Antis Indians.
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The above 50 points show that the basis for Plato's tale of Atlantis comes from a people and region in South America. These points match in remarkable detail the Altiplano in Bolivia including such rare features as the plain being "midway along the longest side of the continent", the metal, orichalcum, considered by Sir Desmond Lee to be imaginery but which in fact exists there as a natural alloy and other factors such as the first inhabitants being born in pairs.
The story can be proven to be true up to a point, i.e. the level rectangular plain with the island capital which was originally a low mountain where the god of the sea married one of the locals, then broke it off to make it impregnable to man, creating rings of land and sea etc and it's subsequent destruction by earthquakes and floods.
The metals used to plate the walls of the city, gold, silver, copper, tin and orichalcum all exist here in plentiful supply as not found elsewhere in the world.
Even elephants belong to South America in the form of mastodons, remains of which, along with remains of trees have recently been found on the shores of Lake Titicaca.
More out of place is the description supposedly in the centre of the larger ring of land of the "racecourse laid out for horses" since riding horses were unknown in the Americas prior to the Conquest. Similarly "and round about it, on this side and on that, were barracks for the greater part of the spearmen; but the guard-house of the more trusty of them was posted in the smaller circle, which was nearer the acropolis; while those who were the most trustworthy of all had dwellings granted to them within the acropolis round about the persons of the kings." here we have a hint of Plato's political doctrine possibly creeping in while let us consider further his description of the occupants of the plain;
"each leader should provide for war the sixth part of a war-chariot's equipment, so as to make up 10,000 chariots in all, together with two horses and mounted men; also a pair of horses without a car, and attached thereto a combattant with a small shield and for charioteer the rider who springs from horse to horse; and two hoplites; and archers and slingers, two of each; and light-armed slingers and javelin-men, three of each; and four sailors towards the manning of twelve hundred ships."
As mentioned earlier, riding horses were previously unknown in the Americas, as were chariots, but since land armies also attacked Egypt at the time of the Sea Peoples, could this be a description of these land armies? On the other hand, the number of ships involved, 1200, is the same number that sailed against Troy suggesting that the war described by Plato which he called "a very great exploit, worthy indeed to be accounted the most notable of all exploits, which was performed by this city (Athens)" was perhaps the Trojan War, particularly since he says "9,000 is the sum of years since the war occurred" which if substituting months for years would give us a date of 1260BC - the actual date of the Trojan war.
The Trojan War was followed by the attacks of the Sea Peoples upon Egypt and some time later the Persians re-captured the Asiatic coastline opposite Athens, subsequently crossing over to enter Athens and burn it to the ground, but the Persian fleet which incidentally was said to have also numbered 1200 ships was defeated by the Greeks and the Persian armies repulsed so...
It seems probable that Plato aquired the geographic details and legend of a sunken city on the Altiplano as he claimed from Egypt and added a few embellishments drawn from other legends, he was not talking about an actual Athens but a theoretical Athens governed by philosopher kings, so polished up the story in the process to make it worthy of his political dialogues for which he became famous.
The Atlantis 50 points test
from
Beyond the 24 points of the Atlantis Conference
This page updated by Jim Allen 1st Nov 2010
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