footnotes by R.G.Bury
the translation by Donnelly is very similar to Jowett with
the following differences |
Atlantis by Plato, the Jowett translation
Atlantis by Plato, the R.G. Bury translations
Some excellent information on the various translations of Plato’s Atlantis was provided on the Atlantis Rising forum by Gwen Parker in 2005. Unfortunately her contributions were continuously interrupted by a certain person or people who in the end made Gwen Parkers thread unreadable and destroyed the thread she had begun.
The original postings can be found here, Atlantis Rising translations thread started by Gwen Parker and I have pasted Gwen Parker’s valuable contribution below, without the annoying interruptions which appeared on the original page.
Gwen Parker |
Hello
again to everyone. I have been following the debate about the language that
Plato may or may not have used to describe Atlantis and thought it might be
interesting to examine how the translations came to their current state, what
may be write and wrong abou them, and just who did the translating. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Arabic Plato translations Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
A Brief History of Translations. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Thomas
Taylor, Benjamin Jowett, Desmond Lee and R.G. Bury are the most famous
translaters of Plato and have also been some of the most maligned by some of
the members here. But do they really deserve all the critcsm they've been
receiving? Let's look at each of them, one by one: Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Logic
is neither a science nor an art, but a dodge. Posts: 475
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Rich |
Gwen,
you've made some great points. I really like those quotes from Jowett as
well. I think there are really only about 10 words out of 1000(1%) that have
alternate meanings; eg. Shame: 1-Unfortunate 2-Disgrace. Posts: 2261
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Tom Hebert |
This
is an excellent thread, Gwen. How refreshing it is to see a scholarly
discussion of Atlantis! Posts: 813
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Tom Hebert |
Hi
Rich, Posts: 813
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Gwen Parker |
quote: Gwen, you've made some great points. I really
like those quotes from Jowett as well. I think there are really only about 10
words out of 1000(1%) that have alternate meanings; eg. Shame: 1-Unfortunate
2-Disgrace. I
totally agree, Rich, that's why I always thought that it was best to compare
the three when deciding what Plato intended to say. On the key phrases (time
& location), there seems to be little difference. More on that later,
though. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
quote: I knew that Jowett's translations had stood the
test of time, but I did not realize that he was a giant of a man in his own
right, even if he had never translated Timaeus and Critias. Jowett
was a giant of a man, Tom, good choice of words, and all of them, Taylor, Lee
& Bury were all very great men in their own right, too. I didn't realize
just how much each of them had accomplished until I got the idea to research
all of this. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Thomas Taylor (1758 - 1835), known as the English Platonist, was the first
to translate into English the complete works of Plato and Aristotle. He
also translated many of the later Platonists and also some of the remaining
fragments of the earliest Greek writings, such as the Orphics, and the
Pythagoreans. These translations, together with his original works, represent
the most comprehensive survey of the philosophical thought of European
antiquity. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Kritias: Kritias Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Now
I'd like to tackle some of the key passages according to when and where the
events of Atlantis occurred, according to the three major translations: Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Date and combattants Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Origins Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
TIMAEUS Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Here
is the Greek translation of the most famous passage from Plato's dialogues: Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
quote: The three mentioned translators have committed
errors and some as serious as for example, to invent words that do not appear
written in the Greek text of Plato or to eliminate other that yes they are written.
That is a serious crime. They are not trivialities without importance. Perseus
Tufts is compiled from experts in both Greek and Latin. Perseus Tufts, for the
most part, confirms Bury, Jowett & Taylor, it does not bear out any other
researcher who, apparently, is coming up with independent translations that
have very little to do with both the original Greek material. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
GREEK Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
GREEK: Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
GREEK: Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
GREEK: Posts: 475
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Tristan |
Excellent
work on this, Miss Parker. Once again we see how the earliest and most
respected translations put to shame those who, it seems, simply want
to reinvent Plato for their own self-serving purposes. Posts: 230
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link to Atlantis rising original Gwen Parker Atlantis translations thread page 2
Gwen Parker |
Desmond Lee - Cambridge University Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Philosophy Holdings in Oxford University Library Services Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
quote: Jowett, Bury and Lee were all highly qualified to translate Plato, and most importantly they didn't have any hidden agendas. These noted scholars agree in all the essentials about Atlantis--particularly the size, location and date. I see no purpose in examining any off-the-wall translations. When you have prime rib, why settle for a hamburger? You hit the nail on the head, Tom. None of the original translaters had hidden agendas. They did not seek to place Atlantis in their home country at all costs, and all of them already were professors at the time they performed their translations. They weren't trying to build a reputation, nor were they trying to walk on the bones of others while they did so. Posts: 475
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Gwen Parker |
Thomas Taylor was one of the outstanding translators of the
philosophical writings of the Greeks and Romans, and also published
several original works on philosophy and mathematics. Many of his
important contributions in these fields have been long out-of-print and
are extremely difficult to obtain, having been issued in very small
editions. Most of Taylor's translations have an archaic elegance which
preserves the spirit of the older authors in a manner not evident in more
recent translations. Taylor added notes and commentaries which give
valuable insight into essential meaning which is often obscure in the
actual texts. Thomas Taylor died in November, 1835; for his own epitaph
he wrote the following appropriate lines: | ||
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link to original Atlantis Rising original forum
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